interviews

Jesse Krakow

Jesse has an album out on Public Eyesore, one of the biggest (and nicest, as far as I know) indie CDR labels around. It's called 'oceans in the sun'. It's good, so good it's reviewed here. But there's more to Jesse: he likes to speak of himself as a slightly-obsessive compulsize and insecure multi-instrumentalist; he plays in countless project including Time of Orchids, PAK, Fast'N Bulbous featuring Gary Lucas, Angriest Pussycat, and We Are The Musk Brigade. 'Oceans in the sun' is dedicated to Gidget, Jesse's cat and that's where it all started.

What's so special about your cat you want to make an album for him?
Actually, my cat is a her, and her name is Gidget. She is so special to me for many reasons, one of the main being that I simply love animals (especially dogs, cats, and pigeons) they always make me smile, always make me laugh, always make me ponder bigger questions, and always make me think of dumb songs that I'd like to write and frequently do, on the spot. Case in point the song "Faces of Fun", which is simply something I started singing to Gidget one day when I was holding her and dancing and which I suddenly wanted to capture for all of eternity as is.

Pigeons, that's a funny answer. Nice you sing and write and create to/for your cat, though, so many people just sing and write and create to become world famous. And as the saying here is, being alone is better than badly mated.
There is another serious answer to your question that involves me being horribly depressed and heartbroken and having no one in my life but Gidget, but perhaps we shouldn't go there just yet. I mean, we only just met.... I guess I'm just fascinated by the minds of animals, and being that Gidget is the animal in which I have the most contact with and see the most of, it is her mind that I spend the most time pondering...yeah, did I mention I'm single?

No you didn’t but I’m sure our single readers will love to know that. I think your music sounds/is personal: do you think so too?
I think my music is very personal, but that's not why I enjoy it. I completely disagree with the idea that the more personal or emotional something is the better it is. I think that's crock of shite. I mean, ask yourself: would you rather listen to poorly arranged, poorly executed song about the artist's personal struggle/journey to overcome some kind of meaningful obstacle OR a perfectly crafted song about dog poop? I myself will always go for the song about dog poop because I listen to songs; I don't listen to the intent.

I think I'd have a go for the badly crafted. I'm very sensitive to what I feel the artist put of himself into his own work and I sure prefer clumsy sincere music to supercrafted superinflatedego music. But I'm not the regular kind of audience, nor any kind of audience anyone should aim for.
I would say my music is personal in the sense that it is me writing and playing everything in my bedroom and in my living room, but I think "personal" can be extended to other types of usage. For example, in my band Time of Orchids I am a band member who often plays a piece of music I had nothing to do with creating, but the physical act of playing the piece of music (not to mention intellectualizing and memorizing it) becomes extremely personal. Got me?

Yeah. I'm not very sure, though, about this view of something you didn't actually write yourself becoming yours when you play it. I guess classical musicians would hate me for saying this.
Well just because you didn't write something doesn't mean you can't enjoy listening to it, right? How is that any different than playing something you didn't write? If it's good it's good, and THAT becomes personal. I think as far as "Oceans In The Sun" goes that it's more "private" than "personal". "Private", the way I dance naked in my apartment to Madonna's 1st record.

Hahahaha, is dancing naked a part of your inspiration or do you do it to please your cat?
Hmm, I guess it is a part of my inspiration, but it's not a conscious thing at all, I just like to dance without pants, frequently while singing or lip-synching. It's the 8 year old in me. And no, I don't dance naked to please my cat, I do it to please my women, at which point there are none. Selah.

I read you used very limited gear... What do you say?
Yes, I use pretty limited gear. "Oceans In The Sun" was entirely done on my 4-track, except for the mixing and mastering which was done by Alex Simon on some kind of computer that I know nothing about.

Oh no, please don't give me this 'I know nothing about computers' attitude... Or I'll give you my 'I know nothing about people' one.
I'm a simple guy, so I like simple gear. I used a Yamaha drum machine with the cheesy gray pads whose cymbal sound is so atrocious that I decided to use almost no cymbals on the recording (ala Peter Gabriel)) that I bought 11 years ago for $50. I also used a Yamaha keyboard that Chuck Stern from Time of Orchids gave me, and it is the only keyboard I know that is out-of-tune. Yes, it truly is. Not horribly, but just enough to be wonderfully annoying.

That's great. I love malfunctioning gear. I hear Pole used/uses a lot of sampled malfunctions. One point for you for the 'no cymbals' thing. I hate cymbals.
I don't have an electric guitar, so all of the guitar stuff was done on my acoustic with my Radio Shack microphone that might run you $2, maximum. I stick the mic in the soundhole, run it through a wah for highs, and sometimes through a fuzz, and suddenly I sound like Derek Bailey. Also, what sometimes sounds like a guitar is exactly a Chapman Stick Bass, which is an 8-stringed instrument with a very large range that is meant to be tapped with both hands ala a piano, which is why I sometimes play it like a guitar and snap the hell out of the high strings for an "icepick in the forehead"-type of sound, though I can also play it properly. I think.

Another good thing: misuse of normal instruments. Tell me more about that!
Being that I'm mainly a bassist, my basses are quite nice. I have a tweaked out P-bass and a souped-up Ibanez 5-string that I use most of the time. In fact, a lot of the "guitar solos" on "Oceans In The Sun" like "Can't Stop Thinking" are actually bass solos sped-up a notch or two. Or twelve. Shit, make do with what you have or make doo-doo.

Kinda funny, uh, you don't know a thing about computers or electronic gear and are so comfortable with up-pitching or speeding up stuff ;-))
Kinda funny, yeah, but I guess that's the Frank Zappa in me. Look what he was able to do with a razorblade! The means are just that...
Ultimately I'm a 4-track nerd and have been for quite some time, and pitch-shifting and whatnot is second nature. In fact my newest project We Are The Musk Brigade is going to be an ongoing 4-track correspondence band with a rotating band of disparate musical personalities. All analogue, DIY, super ambitious punk prog music. I hope.

There's a lot of people inside you, it seems. Frank Zappa, you as an 8 year old, not to mention peter gabriel. No wonder one of your projects has been signed by Tzadik.
Yeah, my (though it is not really mine, it is our(s)) band is Time of Orchids (www.timeoforchids.com), and we'll be making our next record for TZADIK. We hope that it will come out in the early part of next year. The band is me on bass, Chapman Stick, and synth, Chuck Stern on keyboards, vocals, and guitar, Eric Fitzgerald on guitar and vocals, and Dave Bodie on drums. We have been around (in one incarnation or another) for 5 years, with 2 full length albums- one featuring Kate Pierson of The B-52's singing back-up vocals , and 1 super-mega EP titled "Early as Seen in Pace" that was released earlier this year on a great label out of Ohio called Epicene Sound Systems (www.epicenesoundsystems.com), to our credit. We are, uh, um, the sound of a tan whale......singing one deep long note......FOREVER. And oh yeah, I got TONS of people inside me (Frank, Beefheart, The Shaggs, The Stickmen, Ween, Devo, Tony Levin, Tina Weymouth, Scott Thunes, way way way too many people in my belly.

What's wrong about computers in your opinion?
Nothing is wrong with computers. I don't know shit about 'em myself, but I have worked with and for people who do, and I thank the Lord (when I believe in the Lord) for such people. They trust technology, and I trust myself. Computers can create things that are not there, and that alone is a heavy fucking fact, and a fact that makes recording, composing, and performing much quicker and at times more accurate than previously believed. But I have noticed that when a lot of musicians track with a computer, their actual performance lacks, uh, perfection. Because they know they can fix it in the mix and add whatever kind of effect afterward, their actual performance leaves much to be desired. When you have prehistoric gear (4-track) you have to play much more accurately because for each take you are wearing down the actual tape, and this makes your actual performance that much more meaningful, because it's almost desperate. And I like desperation, especially within the context of a song about making fun with someone ("Want To Make Fun"). I guess I'm trying to be timeless with equipment that is dated.

This is a very interesting issue you raise here. Most of the people I know (including myself sometimes) think limited technology helps creativity. Tell me more.
Well, I was just re-reading an interview Paul McCartney did in 1989 where he stated that machines in the 60's, although rather bulky and simplistic, were much better than current machines because machines in the 60's were fuck-up-able. He illustrates this point by using the example of the doubling of the bassline of "Obladi Oblada" with acoustic guitars that were peaking in the red, overloading the desk, which made the guitars sound like shit. But that nasty guitar sound, when blended with a more traditional bass sound, made THAT great sound that you know here on "The White Album". In his words, they literally defeated the machine by using it wrong. He says that these days kids have limiters, compressors, gates, and all this other external gear to insure that you will never, can never overload a desk, which is wrong and that kids SHOULD use machines wrong so they can find their own voice. I agree with this completely. The machine you're working with (and I stress "with") should never dictate the terms of what you can and cannot do with it. Take a chance, but use your brain and take note of what you just did so that next time you do it you're not taking a chance, you're doing something weird that you might have invented. And plus- the more simple something is, the more complicated YOU can be. The more basic the base the more exotic the soup, got me? Besides, a true musician could get his or her sound using a watermelon and a donkey, nevermind mind the plug-ins....

To me, there's seomthing new with them plugins, though: if I want to give my guitar the sound Entombed used to have, I don't have to spend a thousand bucks per day in a studio or buy a mesa boogie amp. I just use the appropriate software preamp emulator and the appropriate compressor. Doesn't mean I HAVE to use it, or HAVE to get this super-mean distorted sound, just means I CAN have it if I wish. Just like I always say with cinema: Kurosawa filmed three samourais fighting one and oh my was it impressive, he filmed lots of against lots of, too, but never gave me the impression he HAD to do it like peter jackson in the lord of the G-Strings. He WANTED to do it, that's it. And I don't think the Beatles are any kind of good example for musicians, but that's my Mr Underground attitude don't take it seriously.
You have a point. The last Time of Orchids record was done completely on Pro-Tools, and we used a lot of plug-ins for guitar and Chapman Stick tones, especially for overdubs. It was a luxury to say 'Hey, what if we go for more of a Fender Twin-y kind of sound", and five seconds later, BOOM, there it is, Fender Twin. It's pretty fucking amazing when you think about it....It has completely revolutionized home recording, and for the best. However, my point is that if you practice/play enough, you can get always get your sound. Zappa is a great example. Over the years he got lots of new gear and guitars and constantly tweaked his tone, but in '88 his guitar playing didn't sound all that different from the way it did in '66. Technology did, but he didn't. My aim is for me to always sound like myself, no matter what I'm playing, who I'm playing for/with, or what I'm playing through. Lots of people say this, and then they go out and buy the next new gizmo that everyone is salivating over, which is completely missing the point. If you suck as a carpenter it doesn't matter what kind of tools you use. And as far as that Beatles comment, OK, hmm, I'm biting my tongue. Maybe I'm too over for the underground, but whatever, that's just me. I like The Spice Girls too. I also like Albert Ayler. I'm also not a vegetarian. I also work in advertising. I also hate George Bush. I also never saw Lord of the G-strings. I mean, what does one have to do with the other?

(That question is for another interview ;-) Do you see yourself as a musician?
It's the only thing I see myself as. Not that any of us has the power to see ourselves as we truly are, but for the time being, yeah, sure.

Final and usual question: three words about you, three words about music, three words about life.
Three words about me: silly, obsessive, pragmatic.
Three words about music: imaginary, fun, everything.
Three words about life: hysterical, non-sensical, brief.

click on banner to go back to interview index

Jesse Krakow Jesse has an album out on Public Eyesore, one of the biggest (and nicest, as far as I know) indie CDR labels around. It's called 'oceans in the sun'. It's good, so good it's reviewed here. But there's more to Jesse: he likes to speak of himself as a slightly-obsessive compulsize and insecure multi-instrumentalist; he plays in countless project including Time of Orchids, PAK, Fast'N Bulbous featuring Gary Lucas, Angriest Pussycat, and We Are The Musk Brigade. 'Oceans in the sun' is dedicated to Gidget, Jesse's cat and that's where it all started. What's so special about your cat you want to make an album for him? Actually, my cat is a her, and her name is Gidget. She is so special to me for many reasons, one of the main being that I simply love animals (especially dogs, cats, and pigeons) they always make me smile, always make me laugh, always make me ponder bigger questions, and always make me think of dumb songs that I'd like to write and frequently do, on the spot. Case in point the song "Faces of Fun", which is simply something I started singing to Gidget one day when I was holding her and dancing and which I suddenly wanted to capture for all of eternity as is. Pigeons, that's a funny answer. Nice you sing and write and create to/for your cat, though, so many people just sing and write and create to become world famous. And as the saying here is, being alone is better than badly mated. There is another serious answer to your question that involves me being horribly depressed and heartbroken and having no one in my life but Gidget, but perhaps we shouldn't go there just yet. I mean, we only just met.... I guess I'm just fascinated by the minds of animals, and being that Gidget is the animal in which I have the most contact with and see the most of, it is her mind that I spend the most time pondering...yeah, did I mention I'm single? No you didn’t but I’m sure our single readers will love to know that. I think your music sounds/is personal: do you think so too? I think my music is very personal, but that's not why I enjoy it. I completely disagree with the idea that the more personal or emotional something is the better it is. I think that's crock of shite. I mean, ask yourself: would you rather listen to poorly arranged, poorly executed song about the artist's personal struggle/journey to overcome some kind of meaningful obstacle OR a perfectly crafted song about dog poop? I myself will always go for the song about dog poop because I listen to songs; I don't listen to the intent. I think I'd have a go for the badly crafted. I'm very sensitive to what I feel the artist put of himself into his own work and I sure prefer clumsy sincere music to supercrafted superinflatedego music. But I'm not the regular kind of audience, nor any kind of audience anyone should aim for. I would say my music is personal in the sense that it is me writing and playing everything in my bedroom and in my living room, but I think "personal" can be extended to other types of usage. For example, in my band Time of Orchids I am a band member who often plays a piece of music I had nothing to do with creating, but the physical act of playing the piece of music (not to mention intellectualizing and memorizing it) becomes extremely personal. Got me? Yeah. I'm not very sure, though, about this view of something you didn't actually write yourself becoming yours when you play it. I guess classical musicians would hate me for saying this. Well just because you didn't write something doesn't mean you can't enjoy listening to it, right? How is that any different than playing something you didn't write? If it's good it's good, and THAT becomes personal. I think as far as "Oceans In The Sun" goes that it's more "private" than "personal". "Private", the way I dance naked in my apartment to Madonna's 1st record. Hahahaha, is dancing naked a part of your inspiration or do you do it to please your cat? Hmm, I guess it is a part of my inspiration, but it's not a conscious thing at all, I just like to dance without pants, frequently while singing or lip-synching. It's the 8 year old in me. And no, I don't dance naked to please my cat, I do it to please my women, at which point there are none. Selah. I read you used very limited gear... What do you say? Yes, I use pretty limited gear. "Oceans In The Sun" was entirely done on my 4-track, except for the mixing and mastering which was done by Alex Simon on some kind of computer that I know nothing about. Oh no, please don't give me this 'I know nothing about computers' attitude... Or I'll give you my 'I know nothing about people' one. I'm a simple guy, so I like simple gear. I used a Yamaha drum machine with the cheesy gray pads whose cymbal sound is so atrocious that I decided to use almost no cymbals on the recording (ala Peter Gabriel)) that I bought 11 years ago for $50. I also used a Yamaha keyboard that Chuck Stern from Time of Orchids gave me, and it is the only keyboard I know that is out-of-tune. Yes, it truly is. Not horribly, but just enough to be wonderfully annoying. That's great. I love malfunctioning gear. I hear Pole used/uses a lot of sampled malfunctions. One point for you for the 'no cymbals' thing. I hate cymbals. I don't have an electric guitar, so all of the guitar stuff was done on my acoustic with my Radio Shack microphone that might run you $2, maximum. I stick the mic in the soundhole, run it through a wah for highs, and sometimes through a fuzz, and suddenly I sound like Derek Bailey. Also, what sometimes sounds like a guitar is exactly a Chapman Stick Bass, which is an 8-stringed instrument with a very large range that is meant to be tapped with both hands ala a piano, which is why I sometimes play it like a guitar and snap the hell out of the high strings for an "icepick in the forehead"-type of sound, though I can also play it properly. I think. Another good thing: misuse of normal instruments. Tell me more about that! Being that I'm mainly a bassist, my basses are quite nice. I have a tweaked out P-bass and a souped-up Ibanez 5-string that I use most of the time. In fact, a lot of the "guitar solos" on "Oceans In The Sun" like "Can't Stop Thinking" are actually bass solos sped-up a notch or two. Or twelve. Shit, make do with what you have or make doo-doo. Kinda funny, uh, you don't know a thing about computers or electronic gear and are so comfortable with up-pitching or speeding up stuff ;-)) Kinda funny, yeah, but I guess that's the Frank Zappa in me. Look what he was able to do with a razorblade! The means are just that... Ultimately I'm a 4-track nerd and have been for quite some time, and pitch-shifting and whatnot is second nature. In fact my newest project We Are The Musk Brigade is going to be an ongoing 4-track correspondence band with a rotating band of disparate musical personalities. All analogue, DIY, super ambitious punk prog music. I hope. There's a lot of people inside you, it seems. Frank Zappa, you as an 8 year old, not to mention peter gabriel. No wonder one of your projects has been signed by Tzadik. Yeah, my (though it is not really mine, it is our(s)) band is Time of Orchids (www.timeoforchids.com), and we'll be making our next record for TZADIK. We hope that it will come out in the early part of next year. The band is me on bass, Chapman Stick, and synth, Chuck Stern on keyboards, vocals, and guitar, Eric Fitzgerald on guitar and vocals, and Dave Bodie on drums. We have been around (in one incarnation or another) for 5 years, with 2 full length albums- one featuring Kate Pierson of The B-52's singing back-up vocals , and 1 super-mega EP titled "Early as Seen in Pace" that was released earlier this year on a great label out of Ohio called Epicene Sound Systems (www.epicenesoundsystems.com), to our credit. We are, uh, um, the sound of a tan whale......singing one deep long note......FOREVER. And oh yeah, I got TONS of people inside me (Frank, Beefheart, The Shaggs, The Stickmen, Ween, Devo, Tony Levin, Tina Weymouth, Scott Thunes, way way way too many people in my belly. What's wrong about computers in your opinion? Nothing is wrong with computers. I don't know shit about 'em myself, but I have worked with and for people who do, and I thank the Lord (when I believe in the Lord) for such people. They trust technology, and I trust myself. Computers can create things that are not there, and that alone is a heavy fucking fact, and a fact that makes recording, composing, and performing much quicker and at times more accurate than previously believed. But I have noticed that when a lot of musicians track with a computer, their actual performance lacks, uh, perfection. Because they know they can fix it in the mix and add whatever kind of effect afterward, their actual performance leaves much to be desired. When you have prehistoric gear (4-track) you have to play much more accurately because for each take you are wearing down the actual tape, and this makes your actual performance that much more meaningful, because it's almost desperate. And I like desperation, especially within the context of a song about making fun with someone ("Want To Make Fun"). I guess I'm trying to be timeless with equipment that is dated. This is a very interesting issue you raise here. Most of the people I know (including myself sometimes) think limited technology helps creativity. Tell me more. Well, I was just re-reading an interview Paul McCartney did in 1989 where he stated that machines in the 60's, although rather bulky and simplistic, were much better than current machines because machines in the 60's were fuck-up-able. He illustrates this point by using the example of the doubling of the bassline of "Obladi Oblada" with acoustic guitars that were peaking in the red, overloading the desk, which made the guitars sound like shit. But that nasty guitar sound, when blended with a more traditional bass sound, made THAT great sound that you know here on "The White Album". In his words, they literally defeated the machine by using it wrong. He says that these days kids have limiters, compressors, gates, and all this other external gear to insure that you will never, can never overload a desk, which is wrong and that kids SHOULD use machines wrong so they can find their own voice. I agree with this completely. The machine you're working with (and I stress "with") should never dictate the terms of what you can and cannot do with it. Take a chance, but use your brain and take note of what you just did so that next time you do it you're not taking a chance, you're doing something weird that you might have invented. And plus- the more simple something is, the more complicated YOU can be. The more basic the base the more exotic the soup, got me? Besides, a true musician could get his or her sound using a watermelon and a donkey, nevermind mind the plug-ins.... To me, there's seomthing new with them plugins, though: if I want to give my guitar the sound Entombed used to have, I don't have to spend a thousand bucks per day in a studio or buy a mesa boogie amp. I just use the appropriate software preamp emulator and the appropriate compressor. Doesn't mean I HAVE to use it, or HAVE to get this super-mean distorted sound, just means I CAN have it if I wish. Just like I always say with cinema: Kurosawa filmed three samourais fighting one and oh my was it impressive, he filmed lots of against lots of, too, but never gave me the impression he HAD to do it like peter jackson in the lord of the G-Strings. He WANTED to do it, that's it. And I don't think the Beatles are any kind of good example for musicians, but that's my Mr Underground attitude don't take it seriously. You have a point. The last Time of Orchids record was done completely on Pro-Tools, and we used a lot of plug-ins for guitar and Chapman Stick tones, especially for overdubs. It was a luxury to say 'Hey, what if we go for more of a Fender Twin-y kind of sound", and five seconds later, BOOM, there it is, Fender Twin. It's pretty fucking amazing when you think about it....It has completely revolutionized home recording, and for the best. However, my point is that if you practice/play enough, you can get always get your sound. Zappa is a great example. Over the years he got lots of new gear and guitars and constantly tweaked his tone, but in '88 his guitar playing didn't sound all that different from the way it did in '66. Technology did, but he didn't. My aim is for me to always sound like myself, no matter what I'm playing, who I'm playing for/with, or what I'm playing through. Lots of people say this, and then they go out and buy the next new gizmo that everyone is salivating over, which is completely missing the point. If you suck as a carpenter it doesn't matter what kind of tools you use. And as far as that Beatles comment, OK, hmm, I'm biting my tongue. Maybe I'm too over for the underground, but whatever, that's just me. I like The Spice Girls too. I also like Albert Ayler. I'm also not a vegetarian. I also work in advertising. I also hate George Bush. I also never saw Lord of the G-strings. I mean, what does one have to do with the other? (That question is for another interview ;-) Do you see yourself as a musician? It's the only thing I see myself as. Not that any of us has the power to see ourselves as we truly are, but for the time being, yeah, sure. Final and usual question: three words about you, three words about music, three words about life. Three words about me: silly, obsessive, pragmatic. Three words about music: imaginary, fun, everything. Three words about life: hysterical, non-sensical, brief.