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Stephen Lawrie of The Telescopes

I always thought artists (even the good ones) releasing music (even good music) on somehow big labels (yes, even the good ones) always were pretentious, unreachable, untrustworthy, posing assholes. To speak the truth I even thought there was a special section in a small font at the end of these huge contracts they had to sign with whichever major was in charge of them stating they HAD TO be like that. That was one of my favourite excuses when I started to hate the regular music business. For every exception there’s at least one rule as we say here (we’ve got a sense of humour haven’t we): Stephen Lawrie’s not only one of the souls behind The Telescopes (do you remember them being signed by Creation Records at that same time My Bloody Valentine on the same label was the big thing?), but he’s a kind soft-spoken good-hearted person that always seems eager to give music he likes a bigger audience.

You told me recently 'the only positive side to a raised profile is that more people get to hear the music' and added 'how many of them will stay with the music when it falls out of flavour' do you feel it happened to you? If so, do you feel your music is back into flavour? Why did it 'fall out' and why did it come back? (I ask this not to make you feel uneasy, but because these are questions that really fascinate me: why is any form of art 'good' and then 'not good', do not answer if this raises bad memories or makes you feel unhappy)

Nah, that's fine, it's a good question. But I don't really know the answer. To me, good art is always good art. Maybe perception of The Telescopes went sour for a lot of reasons. I know some lost faith because they thought we took a U turn instead of delivering the pop hits they expected. But it's too easy to gain the wrong kind of acceptance by following chartered courses. We feel compelled to take a more adventurous route that requires more effort to follow. It makes it hard to predict what our next record is going to sound like. But that's fine by me. I don't frighten easily. I like my music + my life to be like that. The lows are as important as the highs. Ultimately, if our music has any kind of an effect on anyone, good or bad, I’m usually happy. We all know sound only becomes music when it fuses with the imagination of the listener anyway. So it’s hard to relate to it in any other sense.

This is a great way of saying things; looks like you had time to think about this one ? (Or maybe you answered to it too many times?)

I've had a good few years to think about it yeah :) I’ve accepted that with each release we've always lost as many fans as we've gained, but I was puzzled when people started coming back to me years later rating the same music they had ditched previously . I think it's all to do with pathways. Like with the brain. Sometimes things seem alien, unless pathways have formed connections in the brain that explain them more. The same can apply to the way music affects people at different times in their lives.

This sense of adventure/danger you have is really something incredible: your records are quite 'listenable' -in the good sense of the word- but your stage performances seem totally different and rather weird/unpredictable: please tell me more about that! (My editor's comment is this attitude is going to give you either a well deserved world-class celebrity –see Radiohead- or ... A serious headache)

Ha ha, yes… Well I’ve certainly had my share of headaches over it so far + I’m sure there's more in store for me ahead. When I consider the first time the telescopes were around, the music started out favourably being called 'unlistenable' + the more 'listenable' it became, the more unfavourable that was. But the last album was favourably considered 'listenable'.. It's going to be interesting to see how the next album is taken, it's a lot noisier, and follows more feel based progressions than song. Which follows on from the ideas behind recent Telescopes’ shows. I like the way some of Debussy’s music, on first listening, sounds like an emotional flow , we tried to achieve the same effect live, but by improvising to the feel of the room rather than following any written piece. Sometimes that led us + the audience, to disappear into our own worlds together. Which is the kind of effect The Telescopes should have. We're not seeking worship. We like to think of The Telescopes’ music as an actual dimension. The Telescopes are a portal to this dimension, when fused with electricity, acoustics, chance + the imagination of the listener. Sometimes we switch our instruments on + leave them to make their own music without us, and our role shifts to that of listener. So if anything, the music is the celebrity rather than us.

This is a very interesting concept/idea, to be interacting with the audience, I mean making them part of the music instead of passive listeners. Is it something you made on purpose or did it become somehow obvious playing live? -I too like this 'flowing' feel of Debussy's music, I think it can be found in the early works of Olivier Messiaen as well. It sounds very natural, even when it's chaotic. In fact there's something I find quite funny about rock/pop influenced music, it's that people feel they have to base their music on well known structures in order to express themselves in a language the audience understands, although most of the work done in 'classical' music in the early 20th century was trying to show you could do without structures -or with less structure- and still feel natural and speak a language that could be understood by people, Ligeti is another good example (Stockhausen ISN'T!).

Every time I’ve deliberately tried to do anything in art, the end result has been nothing like my original intention. Which can be interesting, but I feel happier with the results I get from letting the music suggest everything to me. It became obvious on our recent tours that some people heard the sound as random noise, and others heard symphonies. I talked about this a lot with the other Telescopes, and listened to what members of the audience had to say. Eventually it became more apparent that everyone seemed to be getting something different from the sound. People’s imaginations were interacting with it. But the strangest thing was how some people reacted when they didn't find music in the sound, some got angry. It reminded me of the frustration some people get when they can't make out the hidden 3d image in a stereogram. Both classical + freeform music can have this effect on people; some say they just don't get it. But there's nothing to get. It's not an intelligence test, it's music. And music is everywhere… When I ride on a bike, the different sounds I hear flashing by, form amazing symphonies to me. But as with all great things of natural beauty, humanity seems to be driven to harness + manipulate it in order to achieve short term personal gain. The inevitable consequences of this make resistance feel all the more important to me. I can hear if cynical formula is present in a piece of music immediately. It kills the listening experience for me. The thought of a world filled with people who can only hear formula is depressing.

What do you exactly mean by cynical formula?

I mean music that's written to a tried + tested formula, usually for commercial gain + usually without substance. There's something a lot more exciting about music that finds its own shape + form. I understand artists being inspired by other artists work + this showing in their music, but I find formula art cynical when it underestimates the integrity of its audience. It’s a bad excuse for an absence of ideas, or an absence of real backbone in the perpetrator. And it makes the art feel like a product of market research to me. I get the feeling this arrangement suits a lot of modern celebrities, who only think of music as a vehicle for their dull egos. But I see that modern celebrity mostly exists to push tame + insubstantial art onto the public. Luckily there are a lot of great artists out there making great art. My ears are never starved for being selective in their choice of listening.

Talking about live, could you tell me what sort of gear you use on stage and if it's very different from the one you use at home or for studio recordings? Do you like handmade/homemade instruments?

It varies, I usually have the EDP wasp with me as a drone + texture to expand from with whatever inspires, usually, a Mooger Fooger set to generate radioactive sounding crackles + pulses that I feed through a sans amp pedal, so I can improvise with EQs + amp settings. I sometimes have my Theremin008 (made by Tony, Theremin maker since 1962 – www.no1derland.com) with me, plugged into a delay, so if I only have one hand free, I can still make an interesting sound, even just by turning it on + off. But lately I’ve replaced that live with the ERC unit, which is a basic radio shack delay with the output looping back into the input, which creates a kind of chaos within the machine that changes the function of the faders on the device, so they work a little like a Theremin. This allows me to have some influence on the chaos. Sometimes I tape down the keys on an Antonelli wind organ + fade in drones + circular chord changes around the drones. On the Italian dates + a few UK dates, I took a guitar with all the strings tuned to the same note + placed it on a stand in front of a small Pignose amp + let it drone + resonate, interrupting it from time to time with a cello bow. I also used a fuzz pedal on the guitar, also made by Tony… When the pedal was switched on + the volume on the guitar was down, the pedal made a nice accidental pulse tone that we were able to improvise around. I've been getting nice sounds from the guitar lately by fastening crocodile clips to the strings then flicking them so they vibrate + bounce against the other strings. I first tried this on an autoharp for the outro of 'cabin in the sky' on the last album. Lorin from The Telescopes and The Dust Collectors has a very interesting approach to the guitar, he places it horizontally on a surface + interacts with the workings of the instrument using a variety of metal objects, hand held battery operated fans, remote controls, magnets, the handle from a gear stick on a fork lift truck… Anything he can find that inspires + makes a good sound. With my live set up, I’m usually restricted by what I can bring with me; some instruments are too fragile to move, so I have more sounds available to work with for recordings than I do live, although live, we occasionally use samples of our recordings. In the studio I can use editing as an instrument too.

Editing as an instrument?

There are many ways of using editing as an instrument. Sometimes a rough edit can leave a noise of its own, that noise can be isolated by trimming away the excess audio around it. Once isolated, it can be sequenced + manipulated in accordance to need. But sometimes I record any old rubbish onto a track in order to hack at it randomly, it's very therapeutic, and the finished results are always interesting + rarely unusable.

What are those instruments of yours too fragile to move?

My Hammond Phoenix for instance, the circuitry is so old that everytime any vehicle it travels in goes over a sleeping policemen, something falls apart internally. I bought it in Newcastle for third wave, when I got it down to the studio in Northampton it needed fixing, then when I got it home after I finished Third Wave it needed fixing again. So now I just keep it in a studio environment where it's happier.

Do you have musical projects of your own apart from the telescopes? I heard (you told me, in fact) you wanted to make something with Randall of Füxa... Speaking about making things with people, who would you dream to make music with (famous/infamous - alive/dead/undead, choose whoever you'd like!)? Maybe you already made music with someone you dreamt making music with... who was he/she?

Jo + I toured the UK about 2 years ago as part of Füxa, along with Willie B. Carruthers. I’ve rated his bass playing since the telescopes toured with Spacemen 3. That was great to do. I always enjoy working with Randall. He has a wonderful sense of feel, which is always present in his music. I’ve collaborated with him on a few Füxa recordings for Rocket Girl + Mind Expansion. We hope to do more stuff together next time he's over. Hopefully with The Telescopes first producer Richard Formby. I’ve played on a few live + recorded Los Planetos del Agua tracks as well. They’re always good to work with + they seem to thrive on interaction with other musicians. Jo plays with them now as well as with The Telescopes. I've just remixed a Charles Atlas track. Their music always sounds perfectly complete. I'm never one to stick a beat to an existing track + call it a remix. So it was an interesting challenge. I'm looking forward to collaborating on the Tin.RP tracks they sent me. I like to make music with anyone whose art inspires me. Known or unknown. Anyone dead would be interesting to work with: I like the idea of transmissions from beyond the grave.


And to open the question further: give me five names of people/bands/organizations you're a fan of (not necessarily in music)

I like a lot of stuff, so it's hard to pick 5, but here's what springs to mind at the moment: Fluxus, BurningEmptiness Inc., The Wicker Man, Sculptress, Jazzfinger.

Here’s my final question: three words about life, three words about you, and three words about music?

Life - all things living
Me - explore. receive. transmit.
Music - speaking without words.